New "white Box" figures on ebay

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Pangaea95		#41	[-]
Posts: 727 (06/25/09 13:33:40) Sixth Army Group Staff The 1/6th Scale WWII Modelers Society Staff The Fighting Sixth of New England Staff Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	When it comes to slander campaigns, I guess 'talk is cheap.' LOL Couldn't agree more, where's the 251??? "In Stalingrad I learned that natural body oils mixed with dirt will make you waterproof....."Kruger Stop by and Visit The Sixth Army Group
B Hellqvist		#42	[-]
Posts: 2758 (06/25/09 14:44:14) Master Artist Division Regular Bronze Björns svärdssida Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It was hinted that there were photos of the counterfeit stuff to be posted over at MDFC, but then they got coy and retracted that, claiming that it would "help to promote the illegal activities of counterfeitors by publishing a pictorial detailing their wares"! Now, if the fake stuff is so shoddy, they should be glad to parade the substandard items, posting pics comparing the fakes with original DML items. But alas... the thread over at MDFC is locked, and I guess no pics will be forthcoming. If those of you here who bought white box figures could post pics of some of the items, preferably with original items next to them, it would educate the members. Try 2/12th scale figures. Twice the detail!
johnro6659		#43	[-]
Posts: 546 (06/25/09 14:53:21) Master Artificer The Fighting Sixth of New England Staff Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Even though they did talk a good game I never got my hopes up about the DML 251. It's too bad they didn't make it because according to their posting on their web site they were going to make a decent 1/6th scale version if what they claimed was true. If they did it in all plastic it should have been much cheaper than the DiD one and sooner or later they would have done a kit version. IMO it probably would have been the most popular DML vehicle to date. We all know it would have sold well. I guess posting it like they were going to make it put the hurt on the DiD version because lots of guys canceled their orders assuming DML had one on the way. Even with the inaccuracy of the read of the DiD one I would have got it if the price was less a plastic one would have been a must have for sure. I just hope they do come out with the 37mm like they showed. I can finally toss my Hasbro ones on Ebay. Oh Well, one can only wish. John Romano New England Area One-Sixth Scale
Sixth Vanguard		#44	[-]
Posts: 127 (06/25/09 15:23:05) Sixth Army Group Staff Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	johnro6659 wrote: ... I still can't understand why someone would knockoff a DML figure rather than use the money to make an all new one or just use the DML stuff to put together a figure DML hasn't done yet. IMO those would sell better and wouldn't be under suspicion as much as being counterfeit also it would give us some more and possibly a better choice. I think it is obvious and completely understandable given the figures that have been "white-box-special" released. They are / were some of the more rare and popular figures DML produced and they can obviously sell them at more than what the originals went for. How hard is that to understand? It's not like they are white-boxing a bunch of Elsas, or Taks, or Kens or even Poncho wearing Rifleman Scotts I don't condone counterfeiting and even tried alerted DML to some counterfeits a few years back to apparently no avail. I wouldn't buy one of these at half the asking price just on principle. Make fun of the white-boxes and couterfiets all we like, but in the end they hurt the hobby. Theft is theft whether you wrap it in a white box or not.
winterdan		#45	[-]
Posts: 1662 (06/25/09 17:28:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I totally agree with Sixth Vanguard counterfitting is a crime full stop....the one question that keeps being hinted at is are these really counterfit? i would hope they are but the fact that they have not been removed from Ebay is putting a very big doubt in my mind....then again if they were legit figures would'nt DML be smart enough to re-issue those figures themselves it certainly would'nt bother me in the slightest if they re-issued older figures in the original boxes perhaps updating the parts that have been issued since the original in the new pattern (that should'nt be too difficult )....not quite the same as the Value+ figures...limited edition re-issues?....that would put an end to the counterfit's it would'nt be worth their while to go through the hassle....i would'nt pay that amount of money for those figures on Ebay they are just as overpriced as the current normal figure releases from DML anyway IMHO. Winterdan
johnro6659		#46	[-]
Posts: 548 (06/25/09 21:02:37) Master Artificer The Fighting Sixth of New England Staff Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I also agree counterfitting is a crime, at least here in the US but in China I don't even think they have laws against it, this is why they are the leading manufacturer of knockoff goods. I also agree with Winterdan I don't believe they are truely counterfeit? My guy Kenneth in HK still insists these are DML items just a poorer quality made for sale only in China not made for export or pre-production samples some one got their hands on. I report counterfeit Gibson Guitars on Ebay all the time but I won't for these DML items because there is a reasonable doubt they are not true knockoffs. First there are no Gibsons made in China and a Gibson Les Paul does not cost $250.00 even with the $125.00 shipping making it $375.00 total there is no way on Gods green earth someone would sell a true Gibby for those prices. On a side note I have seen and played many that people have tried to sell used as the real deal and they are good copies well worth the money even if they didn't have the Gibson name on them. If I wasn't some what of an Expert on Les Pauls I would easily be taken and never know the difference. If DML was smart they would put their own White Box figures on the market they already have in some cases and that would put an end to it all. IMO the figures on Ebay whether they are real or not even though they are cheaper than the originals, they are not worth the price. The shipping alone is too much. I wouldn't pay $120.00 plus $15.00 shipping for the original ERWIN STANGENBERG. Wasn't he a regular release DML and not a CH figure. Why does this figure bring so much on Ebay to begin with? I never heard of him until I read this thread. http://www.dragonmodelsusa.com/dmlusa/prodd.asp?pid=DRF70343 John Romano New England Area One-Sixth Scale
Sixth Vanguard		#47	[-]
Posts: 128 (06/26/09 00:10:37) Sixth Army Group Staff Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Whether or not the white box figures are counterfeit or stolen from DML factories or subcontracted seconds or made in the same DML molds on some grassy knoll in Dallas doesn't matter. Whether or not counterfeiting is a crime here or there doesn't matter. If DML says they are unauthorized for sale then it is clear what is right and what is wrong. Buying these figures and supporting those that sell them is wrong. How hard is that? No one doubts or question that the design is DML's. No one discredits the validity of the claim that only DML has the right to distribute DML products for ultimate sale. There is right and there is wrong. The white box selling is wrong. Now, IMHO if DML was really really really STUPID, they would put their own White Box figures on the market They have sold some figure in white boxes, but all have been original figures, not copies of earlier figures. From day one DML has sold figures as a "collectable item". They should throw ten years of reputation out the door to combat these "counterfeiters". Sure, that would be smart. Say what you like about DML but they have always maintained and banked on the collectibility of their figures. There are many who keep figures in boxes for the "collectable" aspect. Re-releasing figures, especially rare figures would ruin the collectibility of Dragon figures. They may make a quick buck, but those that have been collecting for years will ask themselves "why" and those sales will be gone for good. Maybe the US Post Office should re-release some of the really rare collectible stamps. How smart would that be?
B Hellqvist		#48	[-]
Posts: 2760 (06/26/09 00:36:33) Master Artist Division Regular Bronze Björns svärdssida Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	B Hellqvist wrote: Is it this guy? Apart from one auction, all 12 white box figures are gone. It seems like someone at DML HQ knows a smattering of English after all... Try 2/12th scale figures. Twice the detail!
Templar05		#49	[-]
Posts: 631 (06/26/09 01:17:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	B Hellqvist wrote: B Hellqvist wrote: Is it this guy? Apart from one auction, all 12 white box figures are gone. It seems like someone at DML HQ knows a smattering of English after all... Yeah, JimCorrigan, the same person who no doubt wrote the latest (and probably all) the DML updates on this issue. Last Edited By: Templar05 06/26/09 01:20:02. Edited 1 times.
Pangaea95		#50	[-]
Posts: 729 (06/26/09 11:30:22) Sixth Army Group Staff The 1/6th Scale WWII Modelers Society Staff The Fighting Sixth of New England Staff Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	These fig's may be counterfeits, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out they were actually put out by DML, should this be true I can understand why DML wouldn't want it to be known. DML's own response adds to this conspiracy theory, as previously stated, the proof is in the pudding, show us the pic's comparing the substandard knockoffs to the real deal "In Stalingrad I learned that natural body oils mixed with dirt will make you waterproof....."Kruger Stop by and Visit The Sixth Army Group
dthstrk		#51	[-]
Posts: 650 (06/26/09 17:05:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I remember an auction for an otto skorzeny put on by cyber-hobby on ebay after I got burnt with a "white Box" special On the bottom of the page they had that picture showing all the wrongs from the rights IF I find it I will show it to you guys Last Edited By: dthstrk 06/26/09 17:10:25. Edited 1 times.
dthstrk		#52	[-]
Posts: 651 (06/26/09 17:07:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	see this link http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180349730793
JP Hobbies		#53	[-]
Posts: 449 (06/26/09 17:46:44) JP Hobbies Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Dealers were contacted too. "If any Dealer is caught selling or any involvement they will be dealt with to the full extent of the law" -Jason http://j-p-hobbies.com
Gun Shy		#54	[-]
Posts: 2404 (06/26/09 19:54:21) Master Artificer Division Irregular Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	A link to directly fire to ... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180349730793 Looks like CH doesn't have any other auctions currently, as seen on this link ... http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/cyber-hobby-com_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_ipgZ25 I for one will love to see the final and complete story on this matter. One other thought I have as a related matter, is how some of the 1/6 forums, have been deemed as either unfair or biased against DML and related in one way or another, how IMHO harsh the comments were made against some of the forums and even individual members within them, and then to see now a comment like this ... "What differs our findings, from some of the blatant lies being promoted by bullies on other forums, is the fact that we actually have acquired these figures. We have the proof; we cannot make this up. What is disturbing is that many of these individuals promoting false notions have not purchased or even seen these figures in person. When it comes to slander campaigns, I guess 'talk is cheap.'" .. only in the long run, in my mind, just irks the law abiding and decent people I see that by and large are the real majority of those folks in this hobby. When you consider the past behavior of DML and their related outlets of "information", and I'm speaking as someone that first hand knows ( among others as well ) how well they like to label people in very dark and negative ways when they were confronted with their flaws, with direct quotes from them and real photographic proof to support real claims of said flaws, or even with items returned directly to them to clearly back up things shown online, one can understand why so many might not be so sure about what to believe, or worse, even care about now. Wrong is wrong, and justice is proper even for those that aren't very nice, period. I'm just suggesting, that if one wishes to be given the "benefit of the doubt", then to quote one of "them" from a time back, "respect is a two way street", and being more open to honest discussion wouldn't be a bad idea either, much so when you then in finding yourself in trying times, seek the help of others and sympathy for your plight. Mean Streets, be meaner. Tank Police Last Edited By: Gun Shy 06/27/09 09:23:05. Edited 2 times.
Templar05		#55	[-]
Posts: 632 (06/26/09 20:23:51) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well I do have the white box Gerhard Menz feldjager figure, but I have not taken it out of the box. Not having the original, there's no way for me to know if it is lower quality or higher quality. But as a longtime DML and 1/6th collector, my initial impression is that the whole package compares generally well with your average DML figure, but some individual pieces are definitely lower quality, for example the shoulderboards are poorly aligned, and the text on the gorget and red armband are not perfectly printed/painted. I think it can be said that you are getting what you pay for: a slightly inferior remake of hard to find Dragon figures. Whether it is worth it is up to each collector. I am satisfied enough with my purchase that I chose not to return it (though I briefly contemplated doing so), but I would not have wanted to pay any more for it.
Loke666		#56	[-]
Posts: 2836 (06/27/09 04:18:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have the same Gerhard Metz figure - and my impression is that it is the real deal. The shoulderboards are not top notch - but they are way better than Eugen Schrange's and so far DML havn't claimed him to be a knockoff. I would still say that its very hard for any company to copy every single item in such a complex product - where costumers are so aware of changes in materials. I think its most likely that a subcontrator continued production after reaching the agreed number - It is a crime - no doubt about it - but given DMLs many dirty marketing ploys - I'd say: It couldn't have happend to a better bunch of guys. Please remember that several times when an item is released by small shops like Mike Stannard, Panzerwerk, Die Werkstadt etc. - it miraculours was released by DML just weeks after. Anyway - its buyer beware - you never really know what you get these days - with whitebox figures - or with DML regular releases. Henrik I have one Desire let it be a Pestilence upon your lands a Plague upon all your houses it is my wish to Enslave all your people The soil enriched with their Blood To Burn your places of Worship Our Gods shall become your Gods
Drone7771		#57	[-]
Posts: 1612 (06/28/09 22:55:26) Master Artist Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I bought one of the "white box" Albert Kesselring figures before all the controversy started and as far as I can tell it's legit. It has the correct head sculpt number on the back of the neck and it has the Cyber-Hobby "tatoo" on the body. I compared the figure with the photos posted here earlier and there was only one difference. And that was the piping around the crown of the cap was not as elaborate as some I've seen. All the awards and decorations were there and there were two sets of shoulder boards included. One set was in the packaging and one was inside the cap. Even the little foot stand was there. Everything fits well and was as good a quality as any DML / Cyber-Hobby figure I have. In fact, I compared the Kesselring figure to my C-H Adolf Galland figure, and guess which one looked better? So, I don't know. If it's a knock off, then it's a pretty darned good knockoff. And I'll tell you what, if I could find another one for the same price (45.00+20.00 shipping) I'd buy that one too. Geno. "I have flown among the trees and seen the face of the enemy". -Aero Scout Platoon "Ratpack" -- 1969-1970
skullheadman		#58	[-]
Posts: 1451 (06/29/09 00:48:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Geno, I have a question regarding your Kesselring's cap - was it the service cap or "crusher" cap w/cords?
Drone7771		#59	[-]
Posts: 1613 (06/29/09 07:07:20) Master Artist Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	skullheadman wrote: Geno, I have a question regarding your Kesselring's cap - was it the service cap or "crusher" cap w/cords? It looks just like the one in the photos Brian put up, but it's molded plastic with flocking and the eagle and cockade are stickers. The one in Brian's photos appears to be made from cloth, at least it does to me. You know, if these really are knockoffs then they sure did put in the research. As I was looking at the pic's I noticed that even the plastic tray that the figure comes in is the same, with all the parts laid out just like the "official" C-H releases. I did see one other difference though. The breast eagle on mine was a sticker whereas the one in Brian's photo looks like it was printed on the uniform. But "fake" or not, I'm happy with mine. MaybeI got lucky and got a good one, I don't know, but I'd sure buy another if I could get one. Geno. "I have flown among the trees and seen the face of the enemy". -Aero Scout Platoon "Ratpack" -- 1969-1970

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