Question on FG42 Gunners

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v97	Question on FG42 Gunners	Lead	[-]
Posts: 323 (03/27/09 19:54:53) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Hi everyone Iam very curious on this subject. Did FG42 gunners carried a second weapon? I know most FJ's would carry a pistol for a sidearm but what about a second main weapon? I have only seen one pic of an FJ carrying both a FG42 and Kar98 rifle. I like to know any info if this was common in German fally fg42 gunners. Andre
arbomambo		#1	[-]
Posts: 762 (03/27/09 20:00:55) Master Artificer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It is my understanding that the FG-42 WAS the rifleman's weapon...it wasn't used like the squad MG...more of an automatic rifle... more like a BAR man than an MG gunner...BAR guys didn't carry 'another' rifle as a rule... Bruce
v97		#2	[-]
Posts: 324 (03/27/09 20:17:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi Bruce, I know the FG42 wasn't used like a MG but I always assume the FG42 rifleman would carry a second main weapon like an MP40 or K98 rifle. This comes to my second question Was FG42 Magazine ammo scarce? Was it more slow to reload a FG42? If for those problems was it possible for a FG42 rifleman to carry a second weapon? Andre
RogueJK		#3	[-]
Posts: 169 (03/27/09 20:47:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Keep in mind that the tactics of the day revolved around squads and platoons fighting battles. It isn't a video game where every man is for himself, and the one with the biggest magazine wins. Each weapon served a purpose in the squad, and the members of the group supported each other. Each man played a specific role in the team. As a result, there was generally no need to carry more than one main weapon. You buddies would usually cover you while you reloaded. Not to mention that most soldiers already carry an ungodly amount of stuff around. Another rifle would be another 10-15 pounds of extra, unnecessary weight. And that's not including ammo for the second rifle. To reload the FG-42 with a fresh magazine didn't take any longer than any other magazine fed weapon, like the MP40. And the FG-42 fired the same 8mm cartridge as the Kar98 and G43 rifles and MG34 and MG42 machine guns. As a result, ammunition was plentiful, but most Fallschirmjagers would carry enough loaded magazines already to make recharging magazines with loose bullets unnecessary in the middle of a firefight. Last Edited By: RogueJK 03/27/09 20:56:37. Edited 6 times.
arbomambo		#4	[-]
Posts: 763 (03/27/09 20:56:24) Master Artificer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Andre, the FG-42 was more of an automatic rifle than a machine gun...think of it as an M-16 rather than an M-60...remember it was scoped on some models...so it was somewhat easier to handle than was the BAR. It was the rifleman's weapon...so it was unlikely he would carry anything other than a pistol as another weapon. Remember, think 'rifle'...not 'squad automatic'... Bruce
v97		#5	[-]
Posts: 326 (03/27/09 21:08:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	RogueJK wrote: To reload the FG-42 with a fresh magazine didn't take any longer than any other magazine fed weapon, like the MP40. And the FG-42 fired the same 8mm cartridge as the Kar98 and G43 rifles and MG34 and MG42 machine guns. As a result, ammunition was plentiful, but most Fallschirmjagers would carry enough loaded magazines already to make recharging magazines with loose bullets unnecessary in the middle of a firefight. Thank you RogueJK! That was the answer I wanted. Bruce and RogueJK thank you for all your info. Andre
pzrwest		#6	[-]
Posts: 623 (03/27/09 21:40:59) Master Artificer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I would suggest joining Axis History forum and research your question there. Alot of re-enactors are doing FJ and they are pretty picky when it comes to gear and equiptment and quite knowledgeable about it. You think some nitpick here at the figures well they are very picky there when it comes to uniforms gear and weapons when doing an impression what ever branch of service.
Monte Cassino		#7	[-]
Posts: 1921 (03/28/09 08:36:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	In the book "Dying for St. Lo." a vereran of Fallschirm.Aufklarung-Abteilung 12 during the Normandy fight recalls that: "A sturmtrupp [consisted] of one NCO and ten other ranks armed with a light MG, 2 FG42, and another with a telescopic sight, a flamethrower, a Puppschen anti tank weapon ..." The translation from the original French of the book was VERY POORLY EDITED, so it is hard to get an exact grasp on many of the facts, however. According to this source, a fallie recon squad consisted of 11 men armed with an MG42 (probably), three FG42's, a flamethrower and a panzerschrek. The author probably meant panzerschreck for Puppschen since the latter would have been too large for a recon section. Presumably the other men had MP40's, KAR 98's and G41's. The book is a treasure trove of well reproduced photos (many showing FG42's and G41's) and I highly recommend it for that reason alone. The book is an annoying read, since in addition to the crazy syntax, the author is also of the "suddenly-a-shot-rang-out-school" of overly dramatic writing. "Ha, Doctor! I have you! You're completely dished! Don't you know that in the service one must always choose the lesser of two weavils?" Capt. Jack Aubrey, R.N., to Dr. Stephen Maturin, 'Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World.'
froggyfelix		#8	[-]
Posts: 1629 (03/28/09 10:03:37) Kitbasher Of Military Esoterica Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The FG42 is more an assault rifle like the Sturmgewehr, so no need of another weapon. François-Xavier
Das Soldat 001		#9	[-]
Posts: 1152 (03/28/09 10:05:49) Banned User World War Two Small Scale Staff Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Andre, I'm also working on an FG42 gunner...carrying a sidearm (Luger, Walther, or somethign captured) was common among the Fallschirmjäger...a secondary weapon (K98, MP 40, etc....) could happen, but your best bet is with a pistol....one rifle and all of its ammo is heavy enough after a long day, two weapons would be worse. The FG42 would also be impractical for a light machine gun....with a rate-of-fire close to that of the MG42, a 20 or 30 round magazine won't last long. When you build your bash, remember to add the bandoleer....about 3/4 of the time I see a Fallschirmjäger with an FG42 bash, it#S slightly ruined by the missing bandoleer, or the K98 bandoleer in it's place....
arbomambo		#10	[-]
Posts: 764 (03/28/09 11:32:33) Master Artificer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Trouble is...most FJs who had the FG42 didn't wear the FG-42 bandoleer...it was very heavy, when filled...and since it was worn around the neck, fatigued the trooper much more quickly than the comparable BAR belt worn around the waist and supported by suspenders (M1936)...even the BAR guys found medic yokes and used those instead of the standard suspenders, to help distribute the weight better across the shoulders and back... the FG-42 bandoleer's weight was supported by a cloth band 3-4 inches wide 'digging in' to the neck and shoulders...(it may look 'cool' to some, but was a poor design...) most FG-42 rifleman ended up stuffing the mags into the smock pockets and carrying extra rounds in the KAR98 bandoleers...that's why you see so many photos (and bashes) of FJ's with FG-42s and KAR98 bandoleers; they just reloaded the mags duing 'down time' from the ammo in the bandoleers. The 'Dying for St. Lo" book above (mentioned by Monte Cassino) is full of photos of FJ's -from the 3rd FJD in the Hedgerows-all taken from thaqt great site-Bundesarchive- where even more reside...about 4 of them show FJ rifleman in Normandy- none with the FG-42 bandoleer... Bruce Last Edited By: arbomambo 03/28/09 11:40:45. Edited 1 times.
Monte Cassino		#11	[-]
Posts: 1922 (03/28/09 11:40:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Actually, FG42 bandoliers were rare. They were heavy, clunky and the slapped around a lot when running. As a result, they were unpopular and discarded late in the war. Spare clips were either kept in their pockets, or in the case of Fall.Regt.6 in Normandy, placed in special flap-less rigger pockets sewed into the jump smock on each upper arm, in addition to the pockets AND topped off with chargers from a standard 100 rd. KAR98 Bandoliers. I also read that FG42 clips were hard to come by during the war. Mags for the early and late war model rifles were not even interchangable! The Jerries just couldn't seem to standardize anything. "Ha, Doctor! I have you! You're completely dished! Don't you know that in the service one must always choose the lesser of two weavils?" Capt. Jack Aubrey, R.N., to Dr. Stephen Maturin, 'Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World.'
strumovik		#12	[-]
Posts: 34 (03/28/09 15:00:52) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	From what I have understood, to answer the question no secound weapon, as it was an assualt rifle, but unfortunatly tactically due to the high cost of the weaopon, it was used in the squad support weaopon, it took the MP44 to change the infrantry tactics. Have a look at German Automatic Weapons of World War II, by Robert Bruce, for a good run down on all te main German automatic weapons.
v97		#13	[-]
Posts: 327 (03/28/09 17:00:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Monte Cassino wrote: Actually, FG42 bandoliers were rare. They were heavy, clunky and the slapped around a lot when running. As a result, they were unpopular and discarded late in the war. Spare clips were either kept in their pockets, or in the case of Fall.Regt.6 in Normandy, placed in special flap-less rigger pockets sewed into the jump smock on each upper arm, in addition to the pockets AND topped off with chargers from a standard 100 rd. KAR98 Bandoliers. I also read that FG42 clips were hard to come by during the war. Mags for the early and late war model rifles were not even interchangable! The Jerries just couldn't seem to standardize anything. Thats what I have been thinking about The FG42 bandoleers were unpopular and the magazines were hard to come by. Andre
b c ries		#14	[-]
Posts: 813 (03/28/09 18:17:11) Plastic Samurai Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	In most cases it is better to carry more ammunition than to carry an additional weapon. Attempting to move under fire and find decent cover while burdened with excessive gear is like pimp'n, in that, it ain't easy. This is just my opinion but I believe that most of the soldiers seen in wartime pictures carrying two or more weapons are helping a buddy who has to carry something heavy. I know that while I was in the Army I often carried more than one weapon, and every time I did I was doing it to help another soldier, usually because he/she was doing harder or more important work than I was at that moment. Disclaimer I am not referring to pistols, they are small, easy to carry and it is always cool to have one.
RogueJK		#15	[-]
Posts: 171 (03/28/09 18:29:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	b c ries wrote: Attempting to move under fire and find decent cover while burdened with excessive gear is like pimp'n, in that, it ain't easy. Word.
SplFrcsCWO		#16	[-]
Posts: 1084 (04/08/09 01:55:52) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Actually, troops armed with the early models of the FG42 did carry an MP40 or K98. There were many reliability issues akin to the M-16's early use in Vietnam. The weapons were basically disposable. The barrels could not be replaced and they had a very low round count life. It didn't inspire confidence in the troops.

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